This is why we need immgraition reform...

[Jokersvirus]

The following video is very shocking..

If this doesnt touch your heart, nothing can be said.

Dashcam footage of officer being shot
(http://blutube.policeone.com/media/4115-Dashcam-footage-of-officer-being-shot/)

[thedeparted]

yeah something needs done

[Jokersvirus]

This is what should be done. Add AZ law and apply to every state. After that every deportee from this country, and those legally coming into this country, is fingerprinted and put into a computer system that is then given to all tribal, county, state levels of law enforcement. After that all levels receive a thumb scanner, or fingerprint scanner for all officers, where it will be connected to this fingerprint database. For officer security it could come out of his body mic as a 10 code or something to not let the suspect know the police figured him out. or if it comes back they are an illegal and there are two or more of them in a single vehicle, the officer can hit a button on the scanner to send for another unit. This way if they figured out what is going on and the officer is attacked there is a unit on the way.

and if they are attacked they hit their "Oh ****" button and get priority communication for upwards of a minute to transmit location and everything.

That is whats needed.

[Dess]

Right.... are your taxes gonna pay for that?? Cause mine sure as hell aren't... lol. I already give around $200 a week in taxes... I'd rather keep what little bit of my paycheck I have left.

[Jokersvirus]

Ya taxes should pay for them. Why?

because about 7/10 people complain about law enforcement not doing their job and when this happens everyone blames the officer. So instead of having people complain about the officers and everything you give up a little more cash to give them better equipment to protect ourselves. I would like to point out that a person i know stated it was the officer's fault for getting himself into that situation and getting shot.

And last time i checked officers get paid crap to protect you because they believe it is their duty to do so. Is it an issue to pay a little more to get them more equipment and protect themselves?

I dont think so, but thats because im in this field.

and if it would work my way, this tax wouldnt be much 25 bucks per person adds up quickly. State wide... ya that would add up very quickly and would go directly to all law enforcement agenices in the state, first State police would get it to outfit themselves since they do patrol around the entire state then the biggest county with the most officers and so on. If there has been issues with illegals in a certain area money can be applied there.

That is just my idea.

[Muffincat]

For officer security it could come out of his body mic as a 10 code or something to not let the suspect know the police figured him out. or if it comes back they are an illegal and there are two or more of them in a single vehicle, the officer can hit a button on the scanner to send for another unit. This way if they figured out what is going on and the officer is attacked there is a unit on the way.

and if they are attacked they hit their "Oh ****" button and get priority communication for upwards of a minute to transmit location and everything.


Wait, what?

The fact that they are illegal suddenly makes them violent and a threat, and in need of another unit? O_o I just think it's silly to say it only for illegals and not citizens. Anyway.... not all illegals do this, obviously. Though they typically do have more to fight for, and less to lose.

Also, calling for help while being attacked wouldn't do that much; the other officers wouldn't get there on time, at all. They'd maybe get there after the attackers were gone and you were bleeding out in order to save you, but I doubt more than that.

[Jokersvirus]

They were deported twice.

And well if you watched the video officer was shot over 20 times, got hit in the neck twice made it to his car and called for back up. He gave a description of the vehicle and within 30 minutes they were in custody. Calling for help does do alot more, its hard to explain law enforcement to someone who doesnt understand it. Like teaching calculus to a baby.

Yes stronger reform is needed. You dont see it from my view cause your not in this field. Everyone commits crimes there are no borders or anything. Ya but when illegals are deported twice they will do pretty much anything to stay in this country.

They illegally in this country, do you know what they do to come into this country, they spend money give it to trafficers in mexico and cross the border where it becomes US BCE job to stop them and these people dont play nice they will kill you. Ive seen and heard video and audio of an officer who got shot from enforcing border laws.

Again, its hard to explain law enforcement to someone who isnt in the field nor care about it..

[Muffincat]

Yes - but he's extremely lucky he didn't bleed to death in the time it took them to get there.

And I never said that stronger reform wasn't necessary - just that not all illegals are violent drug dealers, which is what you make it out to be -_-


They illegally in this country, do you know what they do to come into this country, they spend money give it to trafficers in mexico and cross the border where it becomes US BCE job to stop them and these people dont play nice they will kill you. Ive seen and heard video and audio of an officer who got shot from enforcing border laws.

Clearly, they are all like this. Yes. Right.

And yeah. I'm not incapable of understanding things that are not in my field. Why don't you try to explain these mysterious things that I "just won't understand" instead of just saying that they're too difficult for the rest of us to get?

[Jokersvirus]

Why try to explain when instead of an open mind i get shot down everytime.
IE
The fact that they are illegal suddenly makes them violent and a threat, and in need of another unit? and you missed the part where i said if there are two or more in the vehicle.

As you saw in the video one officer vs 2 suspects the officer is outnumbered.

SO im not going to sit here and off topic get yelled at for explaining something. If you want to learn about it do some research, I had to while in my law enforcement major, shouldnt be different for anyone else.

[Muffincat]

I HAVE an open mind - I haven't said anything to you that says otherwise. If you're going to say things like "oh you just wouldn't understand," you should be able to back it up.

All I am saying is that you seem a bit biased here. Why not just say "if there are two or more threatening suspects" in the car? I don't understand why the illegal part makes them suddenly dangerous killers. I am not denying the fact that there is a LOT of crime and drug trafficking and whatnot, and I am not saying that the police officer deserved to get shot, or anything like that. I agree that something needs to be done about our immigration policies - but you are lumping a lot of innocent people into a category of criminals.

I'm not "yelling" at you, either. I am having a discussion with you on this topic. All I am asking you to do is back up your arguments, which you refuse to do because I am "too stupid" to understand, apparently.

I just think it is bad form to make blanket statements like this about groups of people - especially since you ARE in the law enforcement field. There are bad cops, good cops, "bad illegals," and "harmless illegals," as well as varying mixtures in-between. It's a lot more complex than "they are all drug dealers bringing back money to Mexico" :/

Obviously, this is a horribly tragic incident. No one is disputing that. I just think you should have a more open mind when discussing illegal immigrants :)

[Jokersvirus]

How am I being bias? Uhh, cause normally if there are two or more people in a vehicle and you dont feel comfortable you call for an extra unit and like i stated, if they are illegaly in this country they will do whatever to stay, including killing.

When you say "lumping innocent people into a category of criminal" if your speaking about illegal they are criminals and need to be subject to jail time and or prison time. Instead of "Oh your an illegal ok your going back to mexico.."

Never said you were yelling, if i get off topic I will get yelled at by certain unnamed people.

An illegal is an illegal, I dont care if they have a heart of gold, they are not suppose to be in this country so they shouldnt be here. Its not a hard subject, those who cant get into this country legally want to come anyway, they hire people who will shoot law enforcement at first sight and will try to run away to freedom. its not a hard subject people make it hard because they say this econmic needs illegals and it doesnt.

I am open minded, shouldnt throw what i say back at me, it makes me lawl, and I have a zero tolerance towards illegal, your not suppose to be here get out and come here the right way.

[Subb]

i was just thinkin about how many illegals are workin in the construction and landscaping trades for dirt cheap to support there families back home, but if they werent here think about how many more jobs would be opened up for the unimployed that need the money to live comfortably in there own country

[Jokersvirus]

Exactly subb, that is another reason we need it.

people complain they cant get jobs, ya doesnt help when illegals are getting hired, and the AZ law was beautiful with this. For every illegal working at a business the owner was charged 500 a pop.

That is a good way of saying "Hire americans or you are asking to get fined."

[Muffincat]

Except you didn't SAY two or more "people" - you said two or more "illegals." Nothing wrong with getting backup if you're outnumbered - and, once again, not all illegals are about to go killing people -_-


if they are illegaly in this country they will do whatever to stay, including killing.

This is just... I will agree that it is sometimes true, but you act as if everything you say is complete fact all the time. There are thousands of illegal immigrants who don't go around killing people.

What about people who were brought here illegally and had no choice? They should go to jail? I think making people go to jail for trying to better their lives is pretty silly. That's what this country was founded on, after all ;D


i was just thinkin about how many illegals are workin in the construction and landscaping trades for dirt cheap to support there families back home, but if they werent here think about how many more jobs would be opened up for the unimployed that need the money to live comfortably in there own country

Except that often times, they are doing jobs that Americans wouldn't "lower themselves" to do. And they can't technically be hired by companies or anything, so they aren't taking those jobs - just under the table ones, usually. Last time I checked, Americans were perfectly able to stand outside Home Depot waiting for work.

edit: and how would they fine someone $500 for hiring an illegal if you get deported for being illegal and are required to supply your social security number for most jobs? You'd have to be reported as an illegal immigrant, and promptly deported. That doesn't seem to make sense to me - but perhaps you can explain it ;)

Anyway, I'll stop making arguments about this because I don't want to derail the thread - feel free to continue this via PM.

[Jokersvirus]

So illegals arent human now? or are you just trying to get under my skin muffin? And im sorry muffin I didnt know you knew every illegal in the US, would you care to share that information with federal law enforcement? Think like a police officer.. You are approaching a vehicle you dont know the people inside they dont know you, how am i suppose to know they arent dangerous?

Unless they are found to be apart of a White collar/ Human trafficing. Why shouldnt they go to jail? if you were bought here against your will yes you shouldnt have to go to jail, but if there is no evidence of this you should be charged with illegaly entry to the US.

[Subb]

alot of small constuction and landscape companies like to pay "under the table" and mexicans are cheap labor. Weither they landscape, or siding.... etc they work for pennies so who would u hire to get the same quality of work?

[novasheep]

All I have to say is if you take a life then you should pay with yours. Not the best solution but the murder rate would sharply drop I bet.

[Jokersvirus]

Actually that really isnt a threat anymore because you can be stuck up in the legal system for years upon years trying to get a new trail and everything.

and if it was first degree murder/ premeditated murder you need to pay with your life anything else you pay with time in prison

[thedeparted]

this country was formed on immigrants, why are the doors suddenly closed. the good ones should be able to stay and do what i ancestors did which was escape a ****ty place for a better

[Jokersvirus]

Sorry, but if they arent here legally why should they stay?

makes no sense.

Door isnt closed we just dont want everyone and their mother coming here taking everything away from hard working americans who barely put enough food on the table for their families.

[thedeparted]

Well if we'd do a reform on business and get all the jobs that we shipped to 3rd world countries the past 35 years or whateve back here it wouldn't be bad at all. there would be such a surplus of jobs that all of mexico could prolly come and still have jobs remaining

[Jokersvirus]

if all the illegals wont here taking our jobs this wouldnt be an issue.

[Dess]

A lot of places are outsourcing now anyway. And as far as what Jak said he made a perfectly relevant point. Our country was founded on immigrants, from all places. And as far as immigrants stealing everyone's jobs, Muffin made a good point. If people want them bad enough the jobs are out there. Don't get upset because they're getting scooped up by people who are willing to do whatever it takes to get the job. Regardless of if it's working 60 hours a week for base pay that's less than minimum wage. My brother has had to do those side jobs lately. It sucks, but he knows what he has to do. He doesn't care if there are benefits or insurance, holiday pay, long hours or hard work. He needs the money. He's not an illegal immigrant. Maybe if people would lower their standards a bit they would find jobs. Also. I dunno if you know how taxes work or not, but there isn't an allotted percentage that goes towards law enforcement. Like $25 a paycheck or what have you. They have budget meetings and so forth to determine where tax dollars should go. I think children's education, safety, maybe training new officers and increasing their forces along with fire and rescue... should come before immigration, especially when there is a higher crime rate due to gang violence and drugs than there are with immigrants. Those should be addressed first.

Considering you're going into a criminal justice field my biggest question for you is this... when you pull over a car with a Latin person in it, are you automatically going to assume they're illegal and give them problems? Are you going to pull someone over just because they *look* like they could be illegal? If you were faced with 4 subjects who could be possible suspects for a murder... would you chose the person with the sagging pants and tattoos over the white collar clean cut guy?? Things are not always as they seem. Could you treat everyone exactly the same regardless of ethnicity?

With that being said. Most of them are just here looking for a way to make a better life for themselves and their families. Just like our ancestors did so long ago. We're all from immigrants from somewhere. Who came here for the exact same reason. You would think a lot differently if the tables were turned.

/rant

[Jokersvirus]

To answer your question damage if the AZ immigration law passes, yes, if not no im not going to ask if they are illegal or not. Your missing the point damage, i pull someone and there are more then two im calling for another unit, muffin thought that makes them automaticly dangerous, which i never said she was putting words in my mouth.

yes everything is not as it seems, but im not going up to a vehicle during a traffic stop thinking this guy is unarmed because that will get me killed. The point of my idea and rant was simple, pass the AZ law for the entire country give police equipment to check for legal and illegal aliens, and if need be have a button to alert other units to head your way.

Muffin thinks im being bias yet if you think about it, officer safety itself is bias on the grounds of im going to think your a threat to me till i know for a damn sure fact your not.

its that simple. Dont think too much into it, its a simple idea that can do wonders.

Well damage the tables arent turned if they want in this country they can do it legally if not they dont belong here. You can quote to me that this country was founded by immigrations good for them! thank you for finding the greatest country in the world, but now with a shortage of jobs and people needing work, including me, illegals taking jobs isnt cool.

And this lower standard thing is true but your just throwing it all under one blanket. Some people who got paid alot and were high ranking somewhere is forced to work in fast food as nothing is a little hurtful to them, but since majority of us are already on the bottom, we dont care.

[Dess]

well the immigrants aren't exactly taking the $50,000 a year jobs either Joker.... so they aren't taking the jobs people with schooling and experience have worked ( and paid ) to deserve and earn. Not to mention.. those people who are losing their jobs at the top of the food chain, they're making more in unemployment to sit at home and chill. At least those who lost their jobs due to the recession are. Not to mention, the gov just passed another extension on unemployment benefits. My husband was still making more than me when he got laid off because he was one of those people who was at the top of the food chain when his company went out of business.

As far as a button... a panic button for extreme situations period would be a good idea, but I don't think it will ever become a reality. The cost of developing and equipping them would be too high. I don't think it's necessary for them to have a way to check immigration status for basic violations is needed. I personally think if they were to to do something like that it would make people feel even more threatened and more prone to violence.

[Jokersvirus]

They have a panic button its called the "oh ****" button on the body mics, but not all officers have this. Saying its not needed to check immigration status is like saying a police office pulls you over and they shouldnt check to see if your wanted for murder or anything. Illegals are illegal for a reason.

Its not to threaten people its to take control of this issue. there are over what.. 100 million illegals in this country, 5 bucks the feds cant tell you where atleast 10% of them are. This is accountability plain and simple.

If anyone has better ideas im open to suggestions.

[RaiDae]

If anyone has better ideas im open to suggestions.

You know how police officers will (most likely) have phones... maybe a speed dial could put them through to the main office thingie. And the officer doesn't have to talk, but just dailing the speed-dial what was happening could be transmitted to the person who is monitoring. ...that way no new equipment is needed?...
Or, you lot could do what we do here (at least, i think we do). All officers go out in pairs. :)
Just my ha'penny.

[Jokersvirus]

You know how police officers will (most likely) have phones... maybe a speed dial could put them through to the main office thingie. And the officer doesn't have to talk, but just dailing the speed-dial what was happening could be transmitted to the person who is monitoring. ...that way no new equipment is needed?...
Or, you lot could do what we do here (at least, i think we do). All officers go out in pairs. :)
Just my ha'penny.

Ehh calling a number to get help. Why not give all officers body mics? Phones are not very effective when your getting shot at. like the officer in the video if he had a body mic he would have gotten back up sooner.
Putting two officers to one vehicle isnt very effective, less area that can be covered. Only time there are two officer per vehicle is FTO, field training officer, and big big cities, sometimes, like NYC has some officers two to a car, LAPD does the same, etc etc.

Atleast your trying rai

/cookie

[thedeparted]

100 million illegals in this country



seems way too high. if i were to hazard a guess i bet it doesn't exceed 35

[Jokersvirus]

Oh what was it.

In my class Homeland Security

I was taught, 200 million vehicles pass the north and south border each other, 150 million people cross the border each other 50 million of those are illegal.

dont quote me on numbers cause I dont remember.