Building a new PC, how's this?

[MeshiaSamurai]

What I am looking to build is a decent gaming machine that can play what's out there now for RPG's and perhaps MMO's, like Dragon Age, Oblivion and Warcraft. I also want to be able to upgrade it pretty significantly over time, as I have the funds.

Budget wise, I'm trying to come in right around $800 or less, without taking a monitor, keyboard or mouse into consideration.

Here's what I've been looking at:

MB: ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 AMD 880G SATA 6Gb/s
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
GPU: Onboard Radeon HD 4250 (Upgrade later?)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W
HDD: WD Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s
Optical Drive: LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit -OEM
Case: LIAN LI Lancool PC-K58W

Possible upgrades later: Second GPU, HeatSink/Cooling System, more RAM, faster CPU...

Any feedback on how this setup will perform, compatibility of components, and what upgrades to look into first would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. LiNuX, your video tutorial on building a computer was massively helpful, and a great part in making me feel I could actually tackle the project.

[LiNuX]

if you're getting it for gaming, you should get an addon GPU. Onboard GPUs (like that one) are usually weak.

I'm not sure what all that will cost you right now, but this GPU is $50 after MIR and is pretty good: Newegg.com - XFX HD-467X-ZDF2 Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150450)

Other than that, you have a good set up. I've had issues playing certain games on Win7 64bit but I've never played the games you mentioned here. So you should be OK.

And I'm glad my videos helped :) The PC I built there is pretty good and I actually listed it on ebay, if it doesn't sell, I'll be using it as a second gaming PC. It cost me about $500 in total but I waited around for deals. Took me about 2-3 months to gather all the parts.

Good luck with your build! I hope everything goes well and let me know if you have questions. I'll be happy to help.

[W1CKEDTW1STED]

if you're getting it for gaming, you should get an addon GPU. Onboard GPUs (like that one) are usually weak.

+1 on that. Onboard GPUs are terrible for gaming. I have yet to ever see a decent onboard GPU.

[MeshiaSamurai]

I thought an addon GPU might be a good idea. That one looks good. What can you tell me about chipsets? ATI or NVIDIA? Is one better? More compatible?

As far as the OS goes, I'm open to suggestion. I haven't been thrilled with Vista, which I have on my laptop, so I was contemplating XP. I'm not the most savvy with command prompts, so I am staying away from Linux. I would be willing to learn it myself, but it will also be our family computer, so I need something user friendly for my wife and daughters.

Which games did you have problems with on 7?

I have time to wait around for deals. I going to be purchasing the parts with a chunk of my tax return, and I'm not in a hurry (unless the laptop dies on us).

[LiNuX]

There really is no answer for whether ATI or Nvidia is better. The thing with chipset is that if it's an nvidia chipset then you should get an nvidia GPU, it's just works well together. Same for ATI. But I've had to crisscross them for people over the years so it really doesn't matter. It'll still run fine, it's just better to go with the same.

And Vista is terrible. I have it on a laptop too and I barely use it. And XP is good for gaming, well great. That's where I do most of my gaming. I dual boot with win7 and XP and switch when I have to game.

And Linux isn't that bad but I wouldn't recommend it for gaming. not everything is compatible and you do have to learn a bit to get used to it. And Ubuntu is a good free distro that's good for beginners. It would be worth it to give it a shot even if you just dual boot and try it out.

As for games that have problems on Win7. CS 1.6 is an example. For some reason, it doesn't run very well. Probably because the game is so old.

Another one is BFBC2. I'm not sure why, but whenever I play it, windows 7 violently shuts down (meaning skips the shutdown process) - so far I've only seen people have the issue on the 64bit version of win7, not the 32bit.

And waiting is a good idea. Martin Luther King and Valentine's Days are coming up soon and I know stuff will go on sale.

[MeshiaSamurai]

Alright, so I'll stick with ATI chipset for my addon GPU, XP for my OS, (maybe try out Ubuntu via dual booting) and Valentines will probably be right about when I get my return, so I'll look for good deals then. If I have some spare cash (yeah right...) around Martin Luther King Jr. day, I'll take a look then as well.

Thanks for all the help!

[leica]

sounds like a nice machine
:D

i had something more useful to say but i forgot by the time i scrolled down

[W1CKEDTW1STED]

Nvidia = Constant driver updates to take care of any lingering bugs and always listening to their customer feedback.

ATI = No constant driver updates, takes awhile before they fix all the bugs.

Otherwise than that, they are both pretty equal.

[leica]

Otherwise than that, they are both pretty equal.sounds kinda like you're hatin'

back in my windows days i never had a problem with ati graphics. ati's linux drivers are considerably ****tier than nvidia's or intel's though. (unless you count ancient (pre-2002ish) intels which are way worse than current atis.) with arch linux and ati graphics i get some short blanks (like 250ms or so) when i start certain applications (with my hd 4200 this occurs only in wine apps). with arch linux and intel gfx on an really old inspiron the screen would blank permanently 2/3 of the time after udev came up. i experienced no graphics problems with nvidia.

tl;dr: it doesn't really matter unless you use linux, in which case it rarely matters anyway, but nvidia is probably best

[Diligence109]

I've no experience with the battle between ATI and nVidia, but I've been running with a Radeon X1600 for some time now without any issues (built into the laptop, didn't have a choice!) and my dad (comp sci major, moderate/mild gamer, computer know-a-lot) has always preferred ATI for reasons I don't actually know. Omega Drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/) do wonders (for either nVidia or ATI).


I was gonna go through and quote select things that Linux said, but after reading it all it'll be easier and more honest if I just say +1 to EVERYTHING he said. That man knows his computers!

When I first read that you had an $800 budget, my first thought was "pish, he's gonna built a freaking super computer." Also, +over9000 to don't use an onboard GPU. You can (and must) do much better with that budget ;)

Good luck! Tell us how it goes when you build it (in a couple months!)

[Epic.girl]

My pc is less than 800 and runs black ops and the new Final fantasy i just updated the video card to 260 gtx :)

[MeshiaSamurai]

Wil definitely keep you guys up to date with the process. Hoping to buy most, if not all my parts in mid Feb. I don't know how much longer than that I want to wait. I tried running Dragon Age on my Laptop on the lowest settings and thill had significant lag. Used to be able to ply it on medium settings beautifully.

[BobTD]

Budget wise, I'm trying to come in right around $800 or less, without taking a monitor, keyboard or mouse into consideration.

Here's what I've been looking at:

MB: ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 AMD 880G SATA 6Gb/s
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
GPU: Onboard Radeon HD 4250 (Upgrade later?)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W
HDD: WD Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s
Optical Drive: LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit -OEM
Case: LIAN LI Lancool PC-K58W



The built in GPU doesnt seem very up to date. This is its placement on the mid range list:
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2987/benchmark.png

Honestly do you want a GPU ranked lower then Diligences? Really?

I posted my computer specs, you would be able to stick around $700 with a cheep case and similar components to what I got. I would compair your choices wisely.

Also, with your OS if you have any other computers, it allows you to install that software and register it to up to three computers. So dont go and buy new software unless you have to.

[LiNuX]

Im pretty sure you have to disable your onboard GPU, so you wont be using duel video cards.


You don't have to do that. Addon GPU usually overwrites anything an onboard GPU does although connection to a monitor from your onboard might work (I haven't worked with onboard GPUs in ages).

And you can only have one video card working at a time unless you set up SLI or crossfire and that's not possible with an addon + onboard gpu.

[Polishkid]

what size power supply u running lol

[leica]

Every mobo I have ever seen has required the onboard gpu to be disabled before an add-in can be used. You won't be able to run them both.

[LiNuX]

Every mobo I have ever seen has required the onboard gpu to be disabled before an add-in can be used. You won't be able to run them both.

I've worked with onboard GPU in the past (along with addon cards for them) - I didn't have to disable anything to get them to work.

And you're right that you won't be able to run them both together, so you'll have to use one or the either - but disabling isn't necessary.

My old HP (which is my sister's computer) is like that - it has an old onboard GPU which is a geforce 4600 I think and then I upgraded later with the 5600 fx (very old pc) and I can connect to either connections and it works. But only one connection. If both addon card and onboard gpu are connected to a monitor, the addon card serves as the primary gpu.

Well...that's just from my experience. The last dozen or so PC's I've built didn't have an onboard GPU. I usually recommend motherboards without onboard GPU to people I build PCs for (if it's gaming, and most of the PCs I build are for gaming). And a majority of the time, they don't even care, as long as it's what they need.

[BobTD]

I know mine said you had to manually disable it for my GPU to work, but my video card has crossfire built in so that makes sense. It might be up to your GPU more then anything if it can work without any disables.

[LiNuX]

I know mine said you had to manually disable it for my GPU to work, but my video card has crossfire built in so that makes sense. It might be up to your GPU more then anything if it can work without any disables.

Yeah, maybe. I'm not a Radeon guy. But my GPU is SLI ready (9600gt)

Also, I've never really read any instructions or manuals that came with any graphics card.

[leica]

I've worked with onboard GPU in the past (along with addon cards for them) - I didn't have to disable anything to get them to work. what i meant is that it shuts off the onboard completely if there's an addin card. sometimes you have to do it manually, sometimes it does it itself, but thats always the case.

[LiNuX]

what i meant is that it shuts off the onboard completely if there's an addin card. sometimes you have to do it manually, sometimes it does it itself, but thats always the case.

Then yeah.

Most new motherboards and Graphics cards should do it automatically though.

[Raoul]

That's a lovely System you should go for that you can always upgrade your GPU anytime again, but the RAM, CPU and Motherboard they are awesome.:)

[MeshiaSamurai]

Brief update: Just sat down and figured out our taxes this year, and we will be getting a whopping return. That being the case, my wife has given me free reign on my budget for the build. This could get interesting... I'll let you all know what I end up going with.

So far, I think I am going to get a better GPU, but still Radeon. Looking at the MSI Hawk Radeon HD 5770. Also adding an aftermarket HeatSink/Fan: Zalman CNPS9700.

My original build also didn't include an SD card reader, which would have landed me in hot water when my wife discovered that she couldn't upload photos from her camera without a USB cable. Silly me for only thinking about gaming... Going with a Rosewill RCR-IC002 74-in-1. That should keep her off my back.

[Raoul]

awesome wow people are just preparing there PC for the new games coming out lol and it's all awesome PC that use are building

[MeshiaSamurai]

Got to be ready for DA2, ya know.

[MeshiaSamurai]

Sorry everyone for the double-post, but in my defense, it's more than 24 hours since my last post, and I am submitting something substantive (alliteration) to the discussion. I have ordered all my components and this, my friends, is my final build. If all goes well with shipping, I should be putting it together, (and posting pictures) mid next week.

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808)
MB: ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131646)
RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145315)
GPU: MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127490)
PSU: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005)
HDD1: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD2500AAKX 250GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136771)
HDD2: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533)
CD-ROM: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204)
Card Reader: Rosewill RCR-IC002 74-in-1 USB 2.0 3.5" Internal Card Reader (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820223109)
HeatSink/Fan: ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019)
Case: RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156063)
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754)

I'll let you all know how the build goes sometime next week. I hope.

[LiNuX]

Why did you order a 250gb hdd for $45? Did I miss something good with the part?

And $75 for 8gb ram...it has gotten so cheap over the years. When I built my home server a few years ago, the same type of corsair 2gb ram cost me over a $100.

Other than the extra hdd, everything looks good. Good luck with the build, let us know how it goes.

[MeshiaSamurai]

Using that for Photoshop as a scratch disc. I have a nasty case of gluttony for history states. Also thinking about installing my OS to that drive, and using the 1TB for everything else. I'd appreciate your opinion on that. If nothing else, my parents' PC could use a HDD. They only have 80gb on theirs, and it's getting pretty full.

As far as the RAM goes, I was going to just get 4gb, but then I saw that it was just $20-$30 more for 8gb, so I said, "What the heck? May as well indulge a little."

[LiNuX]

I asked about the HDD because I think you're paying a little too much for a 250gb hdd (for what hdd's are worth nowadays). You could have gotten a 500gb one for just a few bucks more. Like this one: Newegg.com - Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148395)

It's actually cheaper since it's free shipping compared to the other, and it's faster.

As for the ram, I bought 2x2gb sticks for a pc I built a few months ago for $95. So much of a difference in a few months. If I waited, I could have gotten 8gb and save $20 on top of that.

I sold that PC though.

[MeshiaSamurai]

Yeah... I'll probably kick myself for the decision on the first HDD, but it's my first build and people make mistakes.

I am a little worried about space inside that case with that big cooler, but there are a couple workarounds I've seen people do with the case to make it all fit nicely. I like all the airfow, and the fold out left side to make installation so easy. Not to mention it looks pretty sweet.

[LiNuX]

you can't learn without mistakes :)

And the case should be fine. It's largest dimension is 14cm or about 5.5 inches - if that's the height, then the width of the case is 8in - you'll have 2+ inches of space on top. Might be tight but it should fit.

[MeshiaSamurai]

So, UPS was supposed to deliver my parts on Thursday, but they came during the only hour and a half that my wife was not home, and of course I was at work. Had to drive 40 minutes to pick them up myself or be forced to wait until Monday for UPS to try and deliver again.

As far as actually building the machine went... Other than forgetting to connect power to the CPU and format my second HDD, it was a breeze. Works great, and easily handles Oblivion and Dragon Age, which were the two games I really wanted to be able to play right now. I am also confident it will handle any of the games coming out this year. Hopefully games coming out for a couple years after that.

Ran Dragon Age for over three hours last night on highest settings and the case was still exhausting pretty cool air. I was impressed.

Windows gives it a 5.9 in it's user experience rating. Looks like everything gets 7.3-7.5 except disk data transfer rate. Is that talking about my HDD's or my DVD-ROM? Both?

After mail in rebates, this thing will have cost me about $900, including the 20" monitor. Not bad, in my opinion, and with plenty of room for upgrades.

Thank you Linux, (and everyone else as well) for your helpful advice, and especially for your videos, which really helped me feel like I could tackle this project.

I will post some pictures of the guts of the thing later tonight. And don't worry, I'll be sticking around here to chat with you all about my gaming escapades.

[LiNuX]

Glad to hear everything works properly. And I hate UPS for a similar reason, but 3/5 times, they say they attempted delivery when they clearly didn't. It makes me mad so usually, I just have them hold it at the local UPS store where I can go pick it up. It's literally across the street from my campus, like a 100 feet from where I park, so that usually works for me.

And the Disk Data transfer is the hard drive. My system is a 6.1 last I checked(although I can't confirm right now since I'm booted on win XP). I think my RAM is the lowest one there.

And I'm glad I was able to help :)

[BobTD]

Yay! I also got Oblivion on the PC (even though I have it on the 360 as well) just for the mods that are available. =P

I also know how you feel, I ordered a keyboard and cd drive two days after my GPU and got the cd drives in three days, but had to wait another four for the after that!