Lets clear the air.

[Jokersvirus]

So it seems alot of you on the forum dislike me for my posts and what I think about subject matter. Well I would like to start off stating that I am human and I think and feel differently than you, my opinions are my own just like yours, you will get upset at things I say, I will get upset at you for things you say. Its Human nature, but the thing is, it seems as of late some person(s) have been saying that my posts are used to cause drama and thats all im trying to do. Well that is misinformation and I can tell you right now I post things that are occurring in this world because no one else is, yes the topics are very hot and will cause emotions to flare but its something that needs to occur.


We cant sit in the dark and pretend nothing is going on, sharing of information, since alot of us live in the U.S., is important in these days where Homeland security is a big thing and we got threats all around us. I post alot of law enforcement threads because I support our law enforcement, yes I support the troops too but seeing as there are so many of the "Support the troops" deals going on around the web and not alot of support law enforcement I take it upon myself to share law enforcement related information.

You may hate my threads and what i write but you dont have to sit there and type a reply you can just move on and ignore it, I do it to alot of thread for people i dislike on here.

Lastly, Im not ramming my opinions, thoughts, beliefs or anything down your throat, I tell you what I think and I move on, and I will state what I think and move on. If i was ramming what i think down your throat would i be saying "**** YOU YOUR WRONG YOUR STUPID" etc? Well I dont some Person(s) have stated that to me in private before and I didnt like it very much.

So overall, if you dont like me thats fine dont read or reply to my threads :).

[EpsilonX]

I don't see this topic going well lol.

[leica]

Funny, because you accused me of posting **** to cause drama. And somewhat ironically, this thread has quite the potential for drama. Nice double standard you have there, bro.

You and me have a lot of conflict. However I think we can get along. So chill out, man. We disagree on a lot of stuff but that doesn't mean I can't be cool with you.

Also, chill.

[Jaykub]

I accept your beliefs but I think you have a hard time accepting others beliefs.

[EpsilonX]

The only problem I think is, you persist in telling people your opinions...you said people don't have to post in a topic you made, but if they do and they disagree you don't need to post your opinion of their post.


For this topic, I think we should actually discuss this with an open mind. That means, don't get defensive, but also don't accuse people of things (like leica did a few posts up)

[Jayhmmz]

To add some light-hearted input into this thread...

I don't like you for obvious reasons..... I'm Batman...

=3

[Jokersvirus]

I believe what I believe and its hard to change my mind. This is how I see it.

I tell you 2+2 =4, we will call this my opinion beliefs whatever,

you tell me 1+1+1+1 =4 that is your beliefs and etc.

Depending on the subject matter at hand will determine how I take it, for example if its law enforcement my mind will not accept something said alot of the time because ive been taught and told differently, IE mainly from my dad, brother and police officers I know.

Now if its something else like video games I will be more open but my opinion will most likely not changed.

point is just generally my mind is made up 99% of the time before you even hit a key.

[Jaykub]

I believe what I believe and its hard to change my mind. This is how I see it.

I tell you 2+2 =4, we will call this my opinion beliefs whatever,

you tell me 1+1+1+1 =4 that is your beliefs and etc.

Depending on the subject matter at hand will determine how I take it, for example if its law enforcement my mind will not accept something said alot of the time because ive been taught and told differently, IE mainly from my dad, brother and police officers I know.

Now if its something else like video games I will be more open but my opinion will most likely not changed.

If your not open to other peoples beliefs then why are you arguing with people that won't change theirs?

[leica]

If your not open to other peoples beliefs then why are you arguing with people that won't change theirs?

Took the words out of my mouth. I have fairly firm political/social beliefs, however I am open to at least consider the opinions of others. Joker, you seem to simply ignore others' opinions if they conflict with your own. I am at least able to "see where someone is coming from" when they make an argument. I have actually seen some of my fundamental beliefs change as the result of healthy debate.

Basically, man, you need to learn to be just a little open-minded.

[Jokersvirus]

Its a two way road jaykub really, if people arent open to what I think and hate on me for what I think or say why should I sit there and try to be open to them. There are people on here I am open to what they say, ask damage, shixx, anyone who i talk to on a normal basis I am not some person who wont be open to new ideas or what others think its just a two way road.

[leica]

Its a two way road jaykub really, if people arent open to what I think and hate on me for what I think or say why should I sit there and try to be open to them. There are people on here I am open to what they say, ask damage, shixx, anyone who i talk to on a normal basis I am not some person who wont be open to new ideas or what others think its just a two way road.I invite you to read my previous post. I am quite open to what you think.

[Jaykub]

Look..

Everyone has been open to your beliefs and listened to what you had to say. Like leica just said "I have actually seen some of my fundamental beliefs change as the result of healthy debate"

And wasn't this thread about being open to others beliefs? If your not going listen to us then what is the point of this thread?

[leica]

And wasn't this thread about being open to others beliefs? If your not going listen to us then what is the point of this thread?

Amen, brother.

We should hold an intervention :D

[Jokersvirus]

It doesnt seem like they have been, ive gotten messages regarding what i think and believe were wrong, if you wish to know the name i can give to you in private, but overall the point of the thread was to clear the air and explain why I do what I do and post what I do. I might not be open to select persons beliefs on here but look at the thread regarding the IMPD officer who got hit, me and linux had an open discussion regarding law enforcement and it was actually pleasant, so what Im trying to point out is that IM not on good terms with people and people arent on good terms with me so therefore we have conflict and a very limited amount of listening going on.

[Jaykub]

It doesnt seem like they have been, ive gotten messages regarding what i think and believe were wrong, if you wish to know the name i can give to you in private, but overall the point of the thread was to clear the air and explain why I do what I do and post what I do. I might not be open to select persons beliefs on here but look at the thread regarding the IMPD officer who got hit, me and linux had an open discussion regarding law enforcement and it was actually pleasant, so what Im trying to point out is that IM not on good terms with people and people arent on good terms with me so therefore we have conflict and a very limited amount of listening going on.

People are listening to you and you should listen to them. If you can't do that then your just as bad as the people your describing.

[Jokersvirus]

I am listening we are having a conversation right now, if i was headstrong or being an ass this wouldnt be going as smoothly as it is.

let me correct myself, I wrote that reply while reading in my homeland manual.

I am listening to people I read what they say but like i have stated depending on the subject matter it will be hard for me to accept what some say I wont sit there and say "your stupid for what you think GTFO" I just make a reply and move on, and if people get under my skin on a certain topic it becomes even harder but I still sit there reply to what was said without getting rude isnt that listening?

[Jaykub]

I am listening we are having a conversation right now, if i was headstrong or being an ass this wouldnt be going as smoothly as it is.

If that is the case then why are we even having this chat? Perhaps we we all have a hard time understanding each other. You seem like a smart and civil person. We should all just hear each other out *like we have in this thread* before resorting to fighting in a thread.

[leica]

Opinions are meant to be argued. Facts are meant to be proven. This is an important distinction. An opinion can be changed, yes, but only by logical argument. You can't prove an opinion, and it looks ridiculous if you try to. It's immature and ends any possibility of agreement.

Once again, I'd like to point out that I hold nothing against you as an individual. I am able to discern between a human being and their ideas, and I do not intertwine the two during debate. I may disagree with and even hate your ideas, but I will not hate you as an individual.

edit: after re-reading my post, it seems a bit hostile. this was not my intention. my point was that opinions are malleable, and as such, not definite. you can not treat them as definite. there is no such thing as a "right opinion" so you should never treat an opinion as right or wrong.

edit2: removed potentially hostile parts.

[Jokersvirus]

Now, I didn't want to go here, but before you go off on "messages regarding what [you] think and believe [being] wrong" I'd like for you to consider some messages you've sent. When we had our little disagreement, I received nothing but ad hominem and insult after I had tried my best to be respectful. I wanted compromise, you wanted to prove that you were right. Since it was an opinion, you couldn't prove it, so you resorted to the aforementioned strategies which I abandoned in middle school.

Opinions are meant to be argued. Facts are meant to be proven. This is an important distinction. An opinion can be changed, yes, but only by logical argument. You can't prove an opinion, and it looks ridiculous if you try to. It's immature and ends any possibility of agreement.

Once again, I'd like to point out that I hold nothing against you as an individual. I am able to discern between a human being and their ideas, and I do not intertwine the two during debate. I may disagree with and even hate your ideas, but I will not hate you as an individual.

Edit: after re-reading my post, it seems a bit hostile. this was not my intention. my point was that opinions are malleable, and as such, not definite. you can not treat them as definite. there is no such thing as a "right opinion" so you should never treat an opinion as right or wrong.


Leica, what you have said in some of my law enforcement threads were disrespectful, and therefore you got the replies you received from me. I didnt want to go there but i remember in my thread of "Could you do it" you were the first to reply saying "too bad they spend a lot of their time arresting harmless people using harmless drugs.

Another time in my thread regarding the 10 officers who have been shot, you replied very disrespectful stating that why should we care about them, etc etc.

So what I said to you might have been immature but were both not innocent here.

[EpsilonX]

I skipped most of the conversation but i highly doubt it went anywhere. Anyways

1. Joker: I don't think people are trying to change their opinions. They're simply stating theirs. Doesn't mean you have to keep re-stating yours.

2. Leica: You ARE extremely disrespectful towards police. You obviously don't understand the job at all. Also, this is simply a discussion forum. You're allowed to post your thoughts without it turning into a huge argument. I personally like discussing things and seeing the differing opinions of people without trying to challenge them.

That's all I have to add.

[leica]

I didn't disrespect you once. I may have disrespected the other officers as a result of my views of society, but I tried to keep as much respect for you as possible.

That "too bad they spend a lot of their time arresting harmless people using harmless drugs" thing was aimed mostly at the government (yeah, wrong thread for that discussion, whatever), as they're the ones who create the law, however in most cases, police departments do allocate a disproportionate amount of resources to these endeavors simply because it brings them bank. It just seems a little unjust. I don't see how it's disrespectful either way, though. But this isn't the thread to discuss that, just wanted to defend myself there.

Now, as far as the thread about the 10 officers, note that there is a difference between lack of respect and disrespect. I can see how you interpreted it as disrespectful, however. We do have different views of society, and you do have more of a connection to those men than I do.

I know I am not completely innocent, and I'm glad that you acknowledge that the same applies to you. Even more so that you acknowledged your immaturity. This is a good step toward compromise. I like where this is going. Now can we get along? Realize that just because you disagree with my views doesn't mean you have to hate me, if that is the case.

edit: @EPS, Okay, so apparently my opinion is wrong! Oh no! I thought I just went over this. It's a little contradictory, though, that you'd say something along the lines of "it's okay to post your opinion" yet call me out on this disrespect. Maybe I don't respect police as much as society wants me to. I don't think they deserve it, and that's my belief. If we don't want to argue over it, then that opinion shouldn't be challenged at all. That would kind of defeat the entire purpose of debate. And just because my opinion is in opposition to that expressed in the OP does not mean I am attacking that opinion, either. If we don't allow "argument" we can't allow debate, really. People have controversial views and they should be allowed to express them. Moderation is required on the part of all parties. I have overstepped my bounds in the past, and I'll try not to in the future, however I expect others to respect their own boundaries as well.

[Jokersvirus]

You acknowledge the connection I share since my brother is a police officer and my father was in law enforcement, so there is a connection I might not be a cop right now but disrespecting them is a disrespect towards me. Yes I do not wear the badge or put my life on the line on a daily basis but I grew up in a law enforcement family so I share that connection by the way i grew up.

[EpsilonX]

Want to know my opinion? You both have good points, you just have to, as the topic title says, clear the air. Find a compromise. And also, you should go over your posts before you make them and make sure they don't sound disrespectful or hostile or unclear or anything.

also, this topic seems constructive to me, so....

[leica]

I agree Eps, this topic is approaching the point where it can be considered constructive :)

So, Joker, now we've both conceded to some of the other's ideas. I acknowledged your connection to cops and my own immaturities, you acknowledged your own immaturities and lack of innocence.

As I said, I see where you were coming from with the whole pseudo-hating-on-me-because-of-what-I-think-about-cops thing. I see that you have a connection to them, so any offense to them is an offense to you. This explains, though not justifies, some of your behavior. But I hope you can see where I was coming from with that argument. I guess I'm somewhat of a nihilist. I think a lot of society's "typical" behavior is just plain illogical. I guess I lack the default, inherent emotional bond to other humans that most people have. If you can assume this point of view for a moment, I'm sure you could see where I'm coming from. Basically, I was saying that cops are just other people; they're not really anything special in the grand scheme of things. Yes, you may think quite the opposite, and I realize this, but even so, I hope you can see the logic behind this belief.

[Muffincat]

I really can't let you say this:


If i was ramming what i think down your throat would i be saying "**** YOU YOUR WRONG YOUR STUPID" etc? Well I dont some Person(s) have stated that to me in private before and I didnt like it very much..

You DO act like everyone else is stupid for their opinions. Pretty sure you've even written it in your posts, blatantly calling people idiots for what they think.

That's how it feels to me, and that's how it feels to a lot of other people. Maybe this is not your intent. But it seems to me that most of the time you absolutely refuse to consider anyone else's point of view. You tend to get extremely hostile in your threads, which is severely off-putting and contributes to the "drama" that you say you do not intend to cause. I pretty much refuse to post in most of your threads because it is absolutely pointless, as you generally refuse to accept anyone else's opinions and tend to just continually post your own opinion over and over again. All it would cause is the drama that occurs in almost every single one of them, and I am tired of it.

Let's face it. Most of the drama in this forum occurs in/around threads that you create. I'm not saying that you intend to do this. People make comments that may inflame your own emotions, and you may be provoked. People do this a lot to you because it's not very difficult. You brag about trolling people all the time, but it seems that you let everyone else's posts get to you very frequently. I'm not saying that you start the drama, but you don't dissipate it. Perhaps you will in the future, and I applaud you for attempting to make this thread.

The threads you make are often controversial because many people disagree with the way you spout your beliefs. You come across as hostile, aggressive, and disrespectful, at least in my view. It doesn't make anyone else want to treat you better.

In short, treat everyone else as if they are human beings with feelings and emotions. You don't seem to care much about humans, unless they are law enforcement, from your continued posts about people who should be beaten and tortured. I disagree with these things from a moral standpoint, but I tend not to remark on them because you can go ahead and say whatever you want and it doesn't mean much to me. However, this, at least from my opinion, seems to point to a general lack of caring, which seems to lead to how you are perceived on this forum. I certainly feel like you never actually read what people are really saying in their posts, and instead lash out at them.

I feel like you tend to not treat many of us as if we are actual other human beings, the same as you, just different.

If you feel like you're being mistreated or misunderstood, then I am sorry. But I think if you acted in a more civil manner, and tried to control your rage (perhaps delay posting in a thread for a day or two if it really makes you mad), then people would be kinder to you. I believe that you have been trying to do this already, as you have improved a lot over the past several months.

However, I think it is mostly your attitude - not your beliefs - that causes people to be upset with you, or think you are causing drama for drama's sake. The fact that you brag about trolling people and generally talk about how much other people are being stupid probably doesn't help that view.

I hope this is somewhat constructive, as I am really tired of all of this drama on this forum, and I am tired of coming back to threads where everyone is at each other's throats (not blaming you). This post was an attempt to be considerate and constructive, from my own viewpoint having seen you evolve on this forum.

Hopefully everyone can chill out.

[Jokersvirus]

Are there people who have annoyed me on the forum, muffin yes I wont consider their opinions because they are void to me for many reasons. I justify not caring what they think because they have simply annoyed me.

When it comes to law enforcement and people bad mouth it yes I take it personal as stated above. Yes I do have a general lack of caring for humans in general, but that is a different story for a different day.

One thing I want to address is this, you say if i acted in a more civil manner and tried to control my rage people would be kinder to me. As I did state before this is a two way road, I have been insulted and treated unfairly by members of the forum in the past, and my logic is why should I try to fight an uphill battle when there is no support from others? Like you said muffin I am insulting etc etc, but i ask you to talk to damage, shixx, and the others i talk to on a daily basis they will tell you im a pretty cool guy. Im not innocent but I would like those who have mistreated me to recognize they are not innocent either and that to better the forum they must understand and acknowledge the actions of the past. Yes I might not have put out the fire but if people are going to be uncivil to me im going to fight fire with fire.

Since Lecia and I see more eye to eye now we can try to begin the process of finding a friendship, but as stated this will be a two way road i cant do all the work nor can lecia do all the work it has to be 50/50.

And if those people who can not do that, admit their faults and meet me half way, there is no chance or fixing what is broken.

[LiNuX]

Are there people who have annoyed me on the forum, muffin yes I wont consider their opinions because they are void to me for many reasons. I justify not caring what they think because they have simply annoyed me.


You can't be subjective with everything. I know you want to go into law enforcement and if you let personal feelings like this get in the way, it will cost you.




When it comes to law enforcement and people bad mouth it yes I take it personal as stated above. Yes I do have a general lack of caring for humans in general, but that is a different story for a different day.


Police officers know that not everyone will love them, the fact is probably that most people dont' like them not just because of arrests, but because of tickets, or pulling them over and making them late, etc. But they don't take it personally. I've mentioned many times that I know tons of cops and I know quite a few federal agents, they've had crap literally thrown at them for doing their job, if they jumped on every thing personally, this world would be very different.

And Law Enforcement is a helping profession, not a controlling one. You need some care in order to be able to do it right, otherwise, it'll frustrate you because as a Police Officer, you have to deal with humans on a daily basis.




One thing I want to address is this, you say if i acted in a more civil manner and tried to control my rage people would be kinder to me. As I did state before this is a two way road, I have been insulted and treated unfairly by members of the forum in the past, and my logic is why should I try to fight an uphill battle when there is no support from others? Like you said muffin I am insulting etc etc, but i ask you to talk to damage, shixx, and the others i talk to on a daily basis they will tell you im a pretty cool guy. Im not innocent but I would like those who have mistreated me to recognize they are not innocent either and that to better the forum they must understand and acknowledge the actions of the past. Yes I might not have put out the fire but if people are going to be uncivil to me im going to fight fire with fire.


I think your behavior is a lot better than it was when you first joined. I think quite a few people remember those days. And you might be a really cool guy (and I've seen it from talking to you personally), but in my opinion, to be a cool guy, you have to be cool everywhere. Not just sometimes. Sure...cool guys can lose their temper, but they should be able to put personal feelings aside and talk about something from the outside, rather than being the topic of discussion. Again, my comments about being a "cool guy" is general, not targeted towards anyone. Plenty of people on this forum (and the world) are in similar positions.



And if those people who can not do that, admit their faults and meet me half way, there is no chance or fixing what is broken.

As you said, it's no "ones'" fault. Tons of people have their faults when it comes to this forum or others. And believe me when I tell you that law enforcement is very close to my heart as well, and its' one of the career paths I'm looking towards and I've already started.



And to finish off, and this is just in general for EVERYONE. You have to consider other people's opinions whether you hate them, love them, or anything in between. If we all listened more or at least considered other people's opinions more, whether it's for religion or communism, we might have had far less wars in history.

[EpsilonX]

Joker, I think you're missing the point. This is what you do: you open threads with controversial topics and you post your opinion over and over and over and when somebody disagrees you call them stupid and get mad. You got mad because a few people didn't like the title "the dark knight rises" and gave us negative rep. That was completely uncalled for, this is a forum where people can discuss whatever they want. You don't have personal ownership over a topic just saying the title of the next batman film and who the next villain is not. You don't control what goes on in the thread. If discussion wants to go to the title of the film, let it. There are many other instances where people posted something that you didn't like, and you got up in arms about it. It's a two way street yes, but if you want people to like you more you have to start the healing process. This topic is a good start, but next time you post a police officer topic, don't call everybody stupid for disagreeing with you. Maybe people will then begin to treat you nicer.

[Jayhmmz]

Has this not been resolved yet? :(

*palm face*

[Jaykub]

Okay guys this was all said and done with. We don't need to being up the past over and over.

/Thread