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Lilliai
11-23-2011, 08:16 AM
Hey guys,
I know you have probabley seen a million of these threads but here's mine. Just a bit of background first though i'm affraid.
This feedback on this post is going to be used in a Uni assignment I have about gaming types on PC vs Console.
I am looking for an opinion and also a little description of why you feel that way.
My own personal view is that for FPS games it is PC all the way. I dont like the feel of the controls that you get from a Console and the whole thing is alien and scary to me :p
But for sandbox games such as GTA and Red Dead, you cannot beat Console.

So after the waffle my Question.......

What is your opinion on PC vs Console?
Please feel free to be specific if you want i.e. FPS, Sport games.

Cheers

TheBryanFury16
11-23-2011, 10:43 AM
hmm.. if u ask me i do prefer you get a powerfull pc and run your games on it and if you want a reason its because most of console games comes to the pc too plus the mmorpg games that comes out every week for pc only so pc takes the lead in my opinion ;D

Mizel
11-23-2011, 12:00 PM
PC because you can download games hah :P

Honestly, Ill play either. Its not that big of a deal to me... But if I *had* to pick one then I'd say PC. I work soooo much better with a mouse/keyboard then a controller. The only games I can't imagine playing on a PC are fighters.

thedeparted
11-23-2011, 12:04 PM
Both tie in my books :P. There is many console games that will never see the light of day on the PC and there is many PC games that wont see a release or at least proper release on the consoles. Also modding on PC is pretty cool

TheBryanFury16
11-23-2011, 12:28 PM
oh lol then there is some pc pirates like me here xD

Mizel
11-23-2011, 12:33 PM
Arghhhh matee ;)

TheBryanFury16
11-23-2011, 12:36 PM
lol i know hehe.. ;)

Exentenzed
11-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Please don't talk about, or hint to piracy on this site. Some of us do not approve of it and it is also mentioned in the rules.

Thank you. :-)

TheBryanFury16
11-23-2011, 01:11 PM
oh ok sorry :D

Kenoi
11-23-2011, 04:06 PM
I'd have to say PC. well, there are some good console games out there, but if you want high end gaming, go for PC. Consoles are really good for multi-player, cause majority of the time, some of your friends may have consoles. Entirely up to you though.

Trunks
11-23-2011, 04:31 PM
I wish all my friends would game on a PC, but a lot of them don't know how to work them that well to be honest. I would much rather game on the PC 100% of the time. But since none of my friends game on the PC I'm forced to play games on my xbox instead, so now my computer can hardly run high end games.

Lilliai
11-26-2011, 01:24 PM
Cheers for the feedback guys. :D

FreeMcAccounts
11-26-2011, 02:25 PM
A pc has the openness that a console doesn't. you can install mods to games on a pc, and modify the game in other ways. On the other hand, problemscan be caused by games on a pc, because there are thousands of pc types, and consoles tend to have one solid model. just my opinion.

BobTD
11-28-2011, 01:41 AM
Hey guys,
I know you have probabley seen a million of these threads but here's mine. Just a bit of background first though i'm affraid.
This feedback on this post is going to be used in a Uni assignment I have about gaming types on PC vs Console.
I am looking for an opinion and also a little description of why you feel that way.
My own personal view is that for FPS games it is PC all the way. I dont like the feel of the controls that you get from a Console and the whole thing is alien and scary to me :p
But for sandbox games such as GTA and Red Dead, you cannot beat Console.

So after the waffle my Question.......

What is your opinion on PC vs Console?
Please feel free to be specific if you want i.e. FPS, Sport games.

Cheers


This is a preference question in some respects, but i personally feel there is no reason to make console games. At all. I can use an xbox controller on my PC, if I really want to. (And I understand about sandbox games, because I love playing prototype with a controller on my PC)

What we really have going on right now, is a marketing ploy. Consoles are an unnecessary thing people are tricked into buying so a company can make more money. The way I see it is this:

Micosoft made my xbox.
Microsoft made the OS on my computer.
My computer has better hardware specs then the xbox.
Why cant i pop a microsoft xbox game into my computer and play it without installing it?

That right there. why is one medium sit down and play while the other needs to be installed. With modern tech that is something we could change if we wanted to. Its only a matter of time until microsoft makes that move. Huge advantage. Suddenly all new Computers sold in stores work like an xbox!

Its now the majority seller of console games. Its wins the console war. Consoles are now obsolete.

We have a clear winner.

zamran87
12-02-2011, 12:34 AM
I'm opposite:
Fps-ps3 (better controls)
Everything else-computer (better graphics)

Mexer
12-02-2011, 06:54 AM
PC all the way.

LemonRising
12-02-2011, 05:24 PM
They both have their advantages. PC has more room for customization so that you can game the way you want, the trouble can be upgrading and knowing about computers so that you can upgrade. That's the good thing about consoles, you know when you buy a game, when you put that disc in, its gonna work.

1337n00b
12-05-2011, 10:59 PM
Pros and Cons:

PS3/Xbox 360
Pros:
-Cheap
-Easier to buy cheap disc games for
-Dedicated to gaming
-Ready out of the box
-Easier to hook up to TVs
-Halo and lots of other good exclusives
Cons:
-Outdated
-Less processing power
-Less graphical power
-Fewer games
PC
Pros:
-Can be a constant build; never out of date
-Mods
-Indie Games
-Steam
-A ton of exclusives
-Can be portable (if it's a laptop)
-Can use gamepad
-Mouse and Keyboard
-More free stuff
Cons:
-Expensive

Yup.

ThCEL
12-17-2011, 11:57 PM
PC all the way.
But consoles are also pretty convenient

BobTD
12-18-2011, 09:33 PM
Pros and Cons:

PS3/Xbox 360
Pros:
-Cheap
-Easier to buy cheap disc games for
-Dedicated to gaming
-Ready out of the box
-Easier to hook up to TVs
-Halo and lots of other good exclusives
Cons:
-Outdated
-Less processing power
-Less graphical power
-Fewer games
PC
Pros:
-Can be a constant build; never out of date
-Mods
-Indie Games
-Steam
-A ton of exclusives
-Can be portable (if it's a laptop)
-Can use gamepad
-Mouse and Keyboard
-More free stuff
Cons:
-Expensive

Yup.

-I would argue that you can find cheaper games even in disc form for the PC. As most PCs are backwards compatible they have an older achieve and logically cheaper buys if you know where to look.
-Might as well point out that an HDMI cable plugs into a computer with one connection point vs 3-5 for Xbox with audio video, unless you use an HDMI cable for your xbox making it a tie. With just a power cable and HDMI cable I can lan with either a pc or console.
-Oh and with newer consoles you almost always have web browsing, movie functionality, music players and netflix and whatnot so you cant say a console is dedicated to gaming either. Even the dreamcast could play movies.
-Technically the first Halo was ported to PC, so its not 100% exclusive. Both platforms have exclusives so it should not count as a point either way.

Looks like PC dominated that comparison. I guess its true, you get what you pay for. Lets face it, a console is just a marketing ploy to keep those new releases for $60 grinding out to as many buyers as they can target. Most console players probably pay substantially in the end, and still own a sub par piece of hardware.

Synge
12-18-2011, 10:11 PM
Looks like PC dominated that comparison. I guess its true, you get what you pay for. Lets face it, a console is just a marketing ploy to keep those new releases for $60 grinding out to as many buyers as they can target. Most console players probably pay substantially in the end, and still own a sub par piece of hardware.

Exactly. Console gamers don't realize just how much you can save going with PC. Hell, $50 + Steam Christmas Sale can net you ~10 games that would still cost 20-30 bucks (maybe more in some cases) on consoles.

Treatment
12-19-2011, 05:56 AM
If you like controls of consoles then buy an xbox controller for pc there out there, another thing is when new consoles come out u have to upgrade and it costs heaps. with computers u only need to upgrade it to suit the games that u wan't to play so eg. putting in more ram. yes pc is more pricey but in the long run they turn out alot cheaper and ethical

CraeSC111
12-19-2011, 09:39 AM
PC. More customizability, more games (thank you third party devs), better controls (generally). Although there are some games I would rather play on a console because the controls feel more natural.

Mizel
12-19-2011, 03:36 PM
http://media.fukung.net/images/34721/6de26a5364cc4de279f30d23742538c8.jpg

SharpStream
12-19-2011, 09:46 PM
I used to LOVE Xbox but i much prefer my Pc Now So PC definatly

betodeth
12-30-2011, 01:02 AM
PC = more MODS .. COnsoles = games more fast

CraeSC111
01-04-2012, 11:13 AM
Consoles aren't necessarily faster. There are often certain limits put onto consoles that aren't on the PC. Sometimes its not very noticeable.

Jayhmmz
01-04-2012, 11:20 AM
Consoles would be better than almost all of the affordable gaming PCs if they had all of their processing cores working on all of the tasks in conjunction.
To my knowledge, consoles have individual cores that each work on their own tasks, which makes the machine fall short of how powerful it could actually be if all of the processors were applied 100%.

CraeSC111
01-04-2012, 11:23 AM
It would probably cost more to design a console that has all its processors work together. Probably why they don't do it.

Jayhmmz
01-04-2012, 11:31 AM
It would probably cost more to design a console that has all its processors work together. Probably why they don't do it.

That is true, but surely it would be better off for them to do so because it would increase the consoles longevity. They wouldn't have to spend any money on making a new console for a long time after the current one.

Take the next Xbox for example, the one that's been dubbed the "Xbox 720". If they put their effort and budget into creating a console with a processing unit that's as good as one you would find in a gaming PC, then that would effectively kill off a fair bit of competition, and would provide gamers with many, many years of entertainment, whilst keep up with the times throughout the same amount of years.

Slayer509
01-04-2012, 11:37 AM
I use to be pretty much just a PC gamer, but that kind of slowly changed. I always loved the good old days of going into the options for the games and turning up the graphics from low to ultra high or however high they go, and then staring in awe how beautiful the game looked.

Now I mostly play a console system, the PS3, because some of my friends play on it and there were not many other people I know that played on the PC like me.

Autopops
01-07-2012, 06:30 AM
pc wins hands down

vznwonder
01-10-2012, 07:13 PM
PC has everything console has plus there connection and graphics is alot better

ditzzy
01-11-2012, 03:05 PM
i think the pc cos it had the first games on :D

rensonjohn21
01-21-2012, 09:52 PM
in pc, you need a lot of upgrades, but in console it is already ready for gaming.

CraeSC111
01-23-2012, 04:16 PM
You only need upgrades if your comp isn't good enough to run games. And you need to buy a PS3 for PS3 games if you only have a PS2. And its cheaper to upgrade a graphics card than to buy a new console.

Trunks
01-23-2012, 05:14 PM
If you want to play on high graphics you'll typical need an upgrade every 2 to 3 years. That's why I have it spread out to about 1 part every year. Makes it easier on the budget that way.

paecmaker
01-24-2012, 12:06 AM
I go PC, you can do so much more. A pc is more powerfull than the consols and if you want you can build them yourself witch you cant with consoles.

The pc can be upgraded to keep up with the graphics and I like the controls better(keyboard mouse)

damien345
01-31-2012, 05:26 PM
Personally I hate consoles. Most games were never designed to play on a D-pad. A mouse works awesome when it comes to looking and aiming. Also each generation of a console only supports the hardware that was around at the time of its launch. So no new shaders, no particle filters....

It's fine for Legend of Zelda and things like that but not very practical for anything else.

cbhattarai
02-09-2012, 04:44 AM
I would really like to have console gaming to have instead of playing it on PC.

When i was searching fornotebook reviews and netbook reviews]. I found that Alien Ware is the best for gamming and purpose..

paecmaker
02-09-2012, 04:50 AM
I would really like to have console gaming to have instead of playing it on PC.

When i was searching fornotebook reviews and netbook reviews]. I found that Alien Ware is the best for gamming and purpose..


From what ive heard Alien Ware isnt that good compared to the price.

Blaze
02-23-2012, 11:51 AM
I have both PC and also PS 3 so i play the games on both and it is also a great experience to play the games on the PC.For playing games i take the PC version.

Ryan Carter
04-13-2012, 08:09 AM
It's a matter of personal choice, I guess. I love FPS games on PC because of the high amount of control I get on a mouse and keyboard. When it comes to action-adventure or even sports games, I prefer consoles like the Xbox 360 or PS3 as I find their controllers and game titles to be better than their PC counterparts. For gaming on-the-go, nothing beats a good hand-held device!

Paul Turner
04-13-2012, 08:21 AM
Although I love some PC games and have preferred it over their console versions, I'm a hardcore console gamer and am proud of it. I love the fact that my PS3 bought in 2008 is still going strong after 5 years, whereas the PC I built in 2010 is already lacking on the latest games such as Crysis 2 and BF3.

Jessika
04-16-2012, 12:06 AM
I like PC gaming, but you have to get a good controller.

Mizel
04-16-2012, 11:22 AM
I like PC gaming, but you have to get a good controller.

.... doesn't that sort of, ya know, defeat the purpose of PC gaming? O_o

CraeSC111
04-16-2012, 04:32 PM
Unless its a joystick. Mech warrior or flight simulators + joystick = most fun ever!

Mizel
04-16-2012, 06:58 PM
Lol Ok, so sometimes it's ok :P

KarlosGaming
04-18-2012, 07:16 PM
PC hands down.

TheGateKeeper
04-24-2012, 02:13 PM
The only reason I got a console was to increase the range of games I can play. Basically anything you can do on a console you can be done on a pc, like a joypad, but you can't say the same for a console.

The only benefit I see to consoles are their "plug and play" feel and better for house parties and stuff.

CraeSC111
04-24-2012, 05:07 PM
Have you ever been to a LAN party? If you could get people to bring their laptops (or their towers if they are that serious about it) then play a game like unreal or starcraft (old cheap games are still really fun) then its way better than playing on consoles.

LemonRising
04-24-2012, 06:43 PM
That requires some planning and effort haha, where as consoles are already hooked up and you just turn it on, not need to move anything. When it comes to casual gaming with friends in the same room, console wins.

CraeSC111
04-24-2012, 07:17 PM
16 people playing SC1 (I have a really really massive collection of custom maps) is super fun. You still have to hook consoles together to play with that many people

Mizel
04-25-2012, 08:04 AM
Ah, LAN parties. one of the best things in life ^_^

paecmaker
04-25-2012, 08:09 AM
Ah, LAN parties. one of the best things in life ^_^

Brings back many memories :D


Sitting in a small cabin in the middle of a forest with a few friends and computers, nothing can beat that(a friend had a small cabin so they rebuilt it to be a LAN house).

Mizel
04-25-2012, 08:15 AM
That's freakin awesome!! My apt is like the "LAN area" lol People come over all the time for LAN parties xD

CraeSC111
04-25-2012, 02:39 PM
I haven't had a LAN party in a while. Last one I had was 20+ people. It was in a church (they had lots of room and the host had connections there)

Mizel
04-25-2012, 02:43 PM
I think Im going to look into getting a T1 connection at my new place.... hmmmm.... I would jizz my pants :P

paecmaker
04-25-2012, 03:35 PM
I miss the Lan partys, I would have been on one of it werent for my kidney, however I might go to dreamhack next year.

Mizel
04-25-2012, 03:40 PM
What's dreamhack? :O Sounds awesome!

paecmaker
04-26-2012, 02:11 AM
What's dreamhack? :O Sounds awesome!

Its a computer festival, its like a MASSIVE LAN party, over 10 000 people come with their computers and there are also lots of companies and competitions there. Its pretty awesome, Ive been there with a computer there one time even though I have visited a few more times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamhack

CraeSC111
04-26-2012, 02:22 AM
OMG! You're going to dreamhack? I'm super jealous. Take me with you

paecmaker
04-26-2012, 02:56 AM
OMG! You're going to dreamhack? I'm super jealous. Take me with you

SAy where you live and I pick you up. :D

CraeSC111
04-26-2012, 03:13 AM
Arizona, USA :p can you be here by 11?

paecmaker
04-26-2012, 03:55 AM
Arizona, USA :p can you be here by 11?

Il try, it can be hard to drive over the atlantic but I bring my rowing boat with me. If I start now we might be able to come back to dreamhack summer 2013. :p

CraeSC111
04-26-2012, 05:42 AM
I'll be waiting. See you in 6 months

Mizel
04-26-2012, 07:45 AM
That.... is one of the most.... amazing things... I have *ever* seen O_o

paecmaker
04-26-2012, 08:35 AM
That.... is one of the most.... amazing things... I have *ever* seen O_o

Its amazing, lots of cool people there too, and a small store open 24/7 during the time. :p

I were there last year, it was amazing, only that my friends chair got stolen...:/

Alexdablade
05-10-2012, 05:39 PM
If you have a decent PC and a good amount of games, then for me it has to be a PC. There is so much more freedom on them, and there are things like mods which help make games feel fresh. By no means do I think consoles are bad, I own all three major ones! But I prefer the PC to any console out at the moment

Exentenzed
05-10-2012, 06:22 PM
If you have a decent PC and a good amount of games, then for me it has to be a PC. There is so much more freedom on them, and there are things like mods which help make games feel fresh. By no means do I think consoles are bad, I own all three major ones! But I prefer the PC to any console out at the moment

I share your views, just mods alone can add tons of replayability to a game. :) But at times, just playing something on a console is just more convenient. :P

Alexdablade
05-10-2012, 06:38 PM
I share your views, just mods alone can add tons of replayability to a game. :) But at times, just playing something on a console is just more convenient. :P

Agreed, I find console games easier to play because of the controller, but that doesn't necessarily make it better

earthyearth
05-12-2012, 07:09 PM
I think if its a GOOD pc like alienware etc then PC is better

but if its a average PC, I'd rather use console

Mizel
05-15-2012, 12:22 PM
lol So what you're saying is... only overpriced, "pay for the name" PC's are good? :P

a1i3n0ct0pu5
05-15-2012, 11:03 PM
Idk i like them both. But my tv is bigger than my pc monitor so i play a little more xbox

CraeSC111
05-21-2012, 04:51 AM
Hook up your TV to your computer. D3 on big screen O_o

BlackEyedJester
05-21-2012, 10:19 AM
I am alittle bit of both, some of my favourite games aren't released for the consoles. So yeah I'm the 50/50 vote XD

But in terms of "If you could only choose one" I would choose consoles, it's alot easier to play your games, No installing, steam errors etc.

Thomass
05-23-2012, 04:29 AM
Console is way more better, but i have only PC...

Mizel
05-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Hook up your TV to your computer. D3 on big screen O_o

Thaaaat's the way to go.

chalerain
06-11-2012, 09:01 PM
I think I'm a good team player and I'm a person of great honesty to others. Brothers and sisters, something we can explore

together

Gh0sT-NoVa
06-30-2012, 02:14 AM
PC is always been better , its the ultimate gaming machine.

If you have the cash its best u dump money building a bad ass PC , that being said , basically Consoles its more fore casual gamers. PC is more likely for hardcore gamers. No matter how long u spend ur time on gaming doesnt mean your hardcore. If u know thing or 2 about PC , u will even OC your rig. Performance term PC is always been better.

Console plugging in to a big TV ? Yesterday news , PC now can support up to 3 big ass TV. Hate keyboard and mouse ? No problem , buy a 360 controller for PC

Want great home theater sound when gaming ? Get a sound card , buy a 7.1 surround sound plug it in.

Stuck on a quest etc , want to look up for cheats ? Alt + TAB , open browser , search.

PC can even support Blu Ray now for movies etc.

Its all about the money , in more rude terms if your poor so get a console , if u have the cash , of course u get a PC , gaming is a expensive hobby if u ask me.

This is just a tip of the ice berg of what a PC can actually do. There is a big list of it

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------

PC is always been better , its the ultimate gaming machine.

If you have the cash its best u dump money building a bad ass PC , that being said , basically Consoles its more fore casual gamers. PC is more likely for hardcore gamers. No matter how long u spend ur time on gaming doesnt mean your hardcore. If u know thing or 2 about PC , u will even OC your rig. Performance term PC is always been better.

Console plugging in to a big TV ? Yesterday news , PC now can support up to 3 big ass TV. Hate keyboard and mouse ? No problem , buy a 360 controller for PC

Want great home theater sound when gaming ? Get a sound card , buy a 7.1 surround sound plug it in.

Stuck on a quest etc , want to look up for cheats ? Alt + TAB , open browser , search.

PC can even support Blu Ray now for movies etc.

Its all about the money , in more rude terms if your poor so get a console , if u have the cash , of course u get a PC , gaming is a expensive hobby if u ask me.

This is just a tip of the ice berg of what a PC can actually do. There is a big list of it

paecmaker
06-30-2012, 01:10 PM
I think PC is better, here is why.

First a pc can be as powerfull or as weak as you want it to be(or afford the price)

Modding, In many pc games you can mod the game, just look at counter strike(half life) half life 2 Arma 2 Battlefield 2 and so on.

The number of buttons, it might get confusing but more buttons are always better as they give you more options.

A pc is much more than just a gaming station, it can do everything a console can do(except move/kinect stuff but who cares) only better.


But consoles are better than pc in several ways.

You dont need to install games to play them, you know the console can handle the games you buy. Also few things are better with a bunch of friends playing halo 3 while sitting in the couch. Also a good pc is much more expensive and you need to upgrade more often(if you want to stay on hte top, however if you dont need to play on ULTRA settings you can do with a midrange computer for years, I know I have)


What I hate however is how many companies are turning further away from pc gaming and also releases more bad console ports and by that dont use the extra power of PCs*cough* ubisoft *cough*

Gh0sT-NoVa
06-30-2012, 08:43 PM
I think PC is better, here is why.

First a pc can be as powerfull or as weak as you want it to be(or afford the price)

Modding, In many pc games you can mod the game, just look at counter strike(half life) half life 2 Arma 2 Battlefield 2 and so on.

The number of buttons, it might get confusing but more buttons are always better as they give you more options.

A pc is much more than just a gaming station, it can do everything a console can do(except move/kinect stuff but who cares) only better.


But consoles are better than pc in several ways.

You dont need to install games to play them, you know the console can handle the games you buy. Also few things are better with a bunch of friends playing halo 3 while sitting in the couch. Also a good pc is much more expensive and you need to upgrade more often(if you want to stay on hte top, however if you dont need to play on ULTRA settings you can do with a midrange computer for years, I know I have)


What I hate however is how many companies are turning further away from pc gaming and also releases more bad console ports and by that dont use the extra power of PCs*cough* ubisoft *cough*

I must agree installing games are quite a fuss. But u get a big HDD , install the game once and ur done , most new games now dont require CD too to play them , just login via steam etc.

If u have the cash , throw in a few SSD in it , U basically barely even load the game during loading anymore !

freeman128
08-09-2012, 05:08 PM
PC IS THE bEST WAY FOR GAMING

CraeSC111
08-11-2012, 12:53 AM
Actually you can hook a kinect up to a PC and do more than an Xbox :p

Triton
08-11-2012, 03:16 PM
At one time I would've said PC. But now I prefe to keep most of my gaming to my PS3, Wii, Vita or DS. I still use the PC for chess.

nerdo
08-14-2012, 04:25 PM
For their price Consoles are better, however you can go far beyond the capabilities of a console if you invest enough money in a PC. As is happens I prefer consoles though I am prone to gaming on PC.

thegame261
08-19-2012, 02:11 PM
I like PC but there are some good games on console . I like the feeling playing rpg games on console but im getting use to playing it on pc. I like sports games on console.

Mizel
11-05-2012, 03:16 PM
I used to be a PC guy but then moved to consoles, and I am currently trying to mix the amount I spend on both. I believe that PC is better since you can update it(GFX card,Processor, etc.) unlike a console. You are basically stuck with what the console comes with. I don't want to keep waiting for the company's to come out with a new console, which is over priced and still worse than most gaming PC's. Don't get me wrong I love both, its just that I like to be able to update my PC so it gets better as the technology increases.

That's my favorite part of PC gaming, the upgrading :D

Artriece
01-07-2013, 09:10 PM
I have been a PC person ever since I went into gaming as my parents never let me have consoles as a kid. I got my PC at the age of 13 and loved PCs ever since. I recently got a 360 though and it is nice to know it will play any game I put in it. The risk of the RROD is too much to bare most of the time so I only play it if I absolutely have to. I play on the PC because of the modding aspect of games on the PC. Plus I don't have a terrible comp so I can play almost anything on high graphics and I can even play very old games too.

Sed
01-07-2013, 11:35 PM
I was never really able to get into PC gaming, because I've never really had a PC that could handle the types of games that I enjoy. I've been a console person for as long as a I can remember, going all the way back to when I was obsessed with my GameCube. Most of my friends are not PC gamers, so it's also an easier way to stay in touch with some people over console.

bihguy
01-13-2013, 02:43 PM
For FPS and RTS the PC is dominant, and the rest are the consoles.