Learning Japanese

[EpsilonX]

I'm gonna teach myself Japanese, first by learning all of the Hiragana characters, and then learning to actually speak the language, after which I'll learn Kanji...I've already started teaching myself the characters, but i'm wondering if anybody has any tips or if there are any pitfalls I should avoid? Does anybody speak Japanese that can give me advice?

[egg-whites333]

I might try Japanese once I master c++.

[Trunks]

I tried to learn Japanese a few years ago for basically the sole purpose of manga and anime. I didn't stick to it though, a lot of anime an manga use slang terms a lot so it's really hard to pick up on things that way when you are just learning. Just depends on what you watch I guess. But, I'd say you should learn both hiragana and katakana before learning kanji. Katakana is basically the same alphabet as hiragana, but they created it to translate 19 century words into their language. For some reason they didn't want to create a new word for things, so they made a different alphabet instead. It will make the process go a lot faster because once you get into kanji, you'll find them bastards using both versions of the alphabets in the same sentence. The characters are written a little differently, so you can tell them a part. If you don't want to memorize two different sounds for the same alphabet, it's probably not completely necessary. I'd look over it a few times though and just be ready to see some once you move into kanji.

Once you get the hang of it it's not all that difficult, atleast the amount I learned wasn't. The grammar or at least the basic ones I learned weren't that difficult to understand. It's just the fact that everything is new that makes its hard, a lot of memorization is need. Good luck to you.

[Mizel]

Lol Teach yourself? Do you hate yourself or something? :P Try using Rosetta Stone or something to that effect. Trying to teach yourself a language with no one to show you proper pronunciation and such is probably near impossible O_o

[Trunks]

There are plenty of free videos all over the internet especially youtube. Japanese is a lot different than english, after learning the alphabet you're basically good to go. There are probably a few weird words, but it isn't like English where there are 10 different sounds for one letter.

[Mizel]

I imagine that teaching yourself any language is really difficult. Most people don't just watch a few YT videos and become fluent in a language. Mainly because the order you learn a language is in the most crucial. Like first alphabet, then basic words, etc. I imagine finding the right videos in the right order would be a pain in the arse O_o Honestly, if I were going to teach myself another language, I'd prolly just buy a book. Seems like the easiest way to go.

[Trunks]

I learned a good amount of Japanese through youtube. You'd be surprised how much you can actually learn on youtube, the amount I learned would allow me to make my way through japan. I'd be talking like a 4 year old, but people would understand me. I don't remember a lot of it now, little things I can remember. I didn't stick with it, learning a language is just repetition.

I don't know what a book would give you that the internet couldn't give you for free. You can find basically all knowledge on the internet for free, so not sure why you'd need a book for that. As for finding videos in the right order. The ones I watched and basically all of them I saw were numbered and even if they weren't you just go to their channel and look at the dates they uploaded them. It's all listed right there.

You can teach your self anything, you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to do it, you just have to have the self discipline and know how to find the tools necessary to do it.

[Mizel]

I'm sure if you put enough time and effort into researching all that stuff online, anyone could do it. Really, I just think a book or program would be a looooooot simpler and save you a hell of a lot of time trying to find that shiz yourself. The reason I like language books and programs like Rosetta Stone are because they are designed to teach you things in the right order, which may be hard for people to figure out for themselves. It's the structure I like. You can type "Learn Japanese" in on YT and find tons of videos that go from teaching you foods then to language structure then to animals then to annunciation... but if you're doing it a completely random order like that, nothing is going to stick. At least that wouldn't work for me lol

I remember when I was in HS learning German over the 4 years I took it, we had about on average 2 teachers per year. For some reason they just could not keep the position filled. And because we had so many, no on knew where the last teacher was at in the lessons and they would bounce back and forth and back and forth and it was impossible to learn anything. That's what I think of when I think of people trying to teach themselves languages online.

[Trunks]

What is the right order lol? I'm assuming you never even tried searching for it, becasue I know I did lol. It's really not hard to find stuff online if you know how to search for it. In a matter of 10 minutes I found out a basic structure for learning the japanese language. Every book you find is going to be different from each other, just like every video you find is going to be different. So saying a book is organized isn't really correct. It's just organized in its own way just like everything else is. A book could have the same random order that a video could have, it just depends on the instructor, or the author of the book. Their is no right order for learning a language, if their was all the learning information would be the same. Go find the top two learning devices for languages. I bet the order that they teach in is all jumbled up apart from learning the alphabet.

In my school I took Spanish, and I had 3 different teachers throughout the four years that I took it. I did completely fine in the class as did a lot of the other students who actually put the time in to learn. Learning a language isn't hard, it just takes repetition and time. If you only look at the stuff once or twice a week then you're probably not going to remember it.

IMO the way the information is organized doesn't matter very much at all because everyone thinks in a different way. It's way more important to know the best way for you to learn, if that would be auditory, kinetics or visual. I actually felt like I learned japanese easier and faster than spanish. Simply because it was less organized. I didn't have to follow a guideline if I already understood or learned that word. I was able to move my own space and move through things quickly or if I needed to, I could take more time on something.


If you like structure in learning, then books would probably be the way to go for you, but it's not like that for everyone. Also don't think that the internet doesn't offer free learning devices that are structured, because they're there, just have to know how to find them.

[Mizel]

That was my whole point, that everyone is different. I imagine that a lot of people need that structure, but not everyone. I am def one of those people and I imagine most people are as well and can't just go out there and learn a language in a completely fuct up order. In any language class, they start with the basics and work their way through for a reason. If I took a language class and they started with full complete sentences and worked their way backwards to the alphabet, it wouldn't make much sense. You can't comprehend full sentences if you don't first know specific basic words, the correct order of words, annunciation/pronunciation, alphabet, etc.... That would be like trying to learn Trigonometry BEFORE learning that 2+2=4 :P

[Trunks]

Yeah but what you're not getting is youtube and many other places do teach languages in that basic structure. That's what I'm trying to say, is it going to be the SAME order as a book, no of course not. Is one book going to have the same order as another book? No it's not, they're all going to be different, but they will all have that basic structure that is needed to learn. The internet doesn't teach full sentences first unless you tell it to.

[Mizel]

Lol Of course they aren't all going to have the same basic structure. I never said that they were :P My wholeeeee point was that some basic structure is needed. Which, we both agree on. That's all I was trying to say, jeez >_<

[EpsilonX]

Well, I know about Katakana and what it is, I was just gonna learn some basic common Kanji symbols. I was gonna learn Katakana eventually. But right now i'm just learning all of the Hiragana symbols. I'll probably get a book, take a class, or something if I wanted to get deep into it. I found a website though, it has pronunciation charts and stuff too.

[Trunks]

Well, I know about Katakana and what it is, I was just gonna learn some basic common Kanji symbols. I was gonna learn Katakana eventually. But right now i'm just learning all of the Hiragana symbols. I'll probably get a book, take a class, or something if I wanted to get deep into it. I found a website though, it has pronunciation charts and stuff too.

Yeah, good luck bro, if you get all the symbols down it's a breeze from there. Just stick with it.

[egg-whites333]

The younger you are the easier it is to learn a language so good luck.

[EpsilonX]

The younger you are the easier it is to learn a language so good luck.

I think it's also a matter of how much you want to learn it. I took Spanish in high school and hated it, so I learned stuff but I found it hard to care. I actually want to know how to say and write words in Japanese (hence why i'm learning it) so it makes it a lot more interesting and exciting to learn it, and kinda fun.

[egg-whites333]

Yes that is a big factor as well.

[Rei00]

Ok, i am bilingual in English and Japanese.
However until a certain age all i could do was read, talk and listen to Japanese.
I could not write a lot of hiragana, katakana and kanji.

I think what you need to determine is what the purpose of learning Japanese is for.
Learning to write it is a hell of a task, but talking it is a lot easier.
You can even learn the vocab in ro-maji (alphabetical phonetic writing).

[EpsilonX]

Ok, i am bilingual in English and Japanese.
However until a certain age all i could do was read, talk and listen to Japanese.
I could not write a lot of hiragana, katakana and kanji.

I think what you need to determine is what the purpose of learning Japanese is for.
Learning to write it is a hell of a task, but talking it is a lot easier.
You can even learn the vocab in ro-maji (alphabetical phonetic writing).

Really, the purpose of learning it is...I've always wanted to. I've always been fascinated by people who are fluent in more than one language, since it seems like a really hard task, and one night I got really bored and started looking up some -very- basic stuff and it was actually quite fun, so when I decided to actually undertake the task, I realized I -can- do it, so I'm going to. Every time I memorize more characters, or see japanese characters in whatever location (album covers, in anime, various other places) I feel like i'm learning more and it just makes me feel good about myself. So it's part for fun, part because I feel like I should spent my time doing something constructive like learning something, and part because it's something I've always wanted to do.

If I can get into the college I want to go to, I'm going to try to partake in the summer in Japan study abroad program, so hopefully I'll know enough. Learning the symbols is really easy, but sometimes I learn the english word associated with the symbols...so as i'm going, i'm learning some words too. I've learned about 10 hiragana (i'm gonna go ham after classes end) and like 4 kanji... I'm not going to be taking classes this spring so I'll have a lot more free time too.

Do you have any other advice, since you're bilingual? Is there anything that a textbook/learning program can't teach you that I should know?

[Rei00]

WI always admire people with intellectual curiosity, so good for you :)
I think that if you find the chracters interesting, you should conquer hiragana first.
I had to learn it with pure repetition to get through tests after enrolling in a local japanese school.
hiragana and katakana is quite easy once you learn the table...(aiueo X a,k,s,t,n,h,m,y,r,w,n)
Pther than that, I think having something to follow (manga, anime, songs. music artist) is good because it give you a genre to stick to, making repetition easier. If you try to read the newspaper etc, it gets too random :)

Unfortunately for me, I was bilingual before I realised it, so I have no method i stick to to learn languages.
But I do know that my Japanese improved dramatically after moving back to Japan and being forced to study and go to school. I think it as because I heard and read so much of it.
So maybe listening to people talk along with reading subtitles will help vocab and phrases stick. :)

[Kenoi]

what I did was buy a couple books for Japanese which included a dictionary as well.but now I have to go with Mizel on this (to have proper pronunciation). soon, I'll have to find a tutor.

[Wolftrap]

I've always wanted to learn as well. Japan is #1 on my places to visit, I've always been interested in their culture and lifestyle.

[Rei00]

I usually suggest people to get bilingual for tutors.
native speakers who studied English are often unaware of cultural differences, and lack vocab, so their teaching is limited.
If you really want to learn fast and accurately, you really should find a real bilingual :)

[EpsilonX]

On a somewhat related note, I hate when people are just obsessed with anime and then they're always like I WANNA MOVE TO JAPAN. I'm just like dude, there's more to Japan than just anime and manga.