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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Default I'm against gay marriages being legalized.

    Ha, I just know this will draw some attention. I purposefully have a provocative title, but read it before you jump to conclusions. I also recommend you start by reading my rules suggestion for this section: (and then debate me)

    Etiquette of SD

    Gay people getting a marriage license is extremely offensive to me. I am also not religious. And I have no problem with their sexual orientation. But I still don't agree with the idea of gay marriage being legalized.

    -First, I dont think churches should have to hold weddings unless they want to. I like when they discriminate because I think it helps people leave the church. (Im not much for organized religion either) This is not really an issue, because they are not being forced to provide these services. One religions views, in a society that claims to uphold the right to individual religious freedom, does not concern the validity of marriage.

    -Second, the goverment recognizes two married people and gives them a legally binding contract saying they are married. Martial status is controlled by the government. Separation of church and state in my mind says the government has no business in matters of religion. So there should be no confusion here, the government has no business telling people how to practice religion, or denying marital status based on a religious majorities perspective.

    So if a church accepts a gay couple and performs a wedding. The state should have no say in weather or not they are allowed a marriage license. That seems to fall under the right of the people to freely practice whatever religious beliefs they so choose.

    The fact that the issue is "should gays be allowed to marry" and not "why does the government get to decide this?" is highly offensive. I'm totally against the idea of getting governmental approval. In fact I am against them being able to grant rights specific to a religious practice that only applies to those they choose.

    The net we have fallen into lies with legal benefits provided by this "married" class. It ranges from tax benefits to the ability to make crucial emergency decisions for your spouse when your significant other cant make them. If affects inheritance, divorce, the whole nine yards. And tradition has gotten in the way of cold hard realization:

    Government control of the definition of marriage is a breach of your ability to practice your beliefs. You can have those rights only so long as you have religious beliefs that are accessible to the majority. We make laws based on majority sure, but should we deny a basic human right based on religious perspectives?

    That sickens me.

    I do not think the government should be in the business of handing out marriage licenses. All of those things that marital status affects can be handled by a declaration of status by a couple to the government, this is not something we should be asking permission for.


    So in closing this argument is actually more about the very idea of what legalizing a type of marriage really stands for. A limitation of your right to beliefs that fall outside of the majority. Yes you should be able to practice one of the most basic human rights regardless of the majorities religious perspective. That's not a valid legal concern. And when I said I found it offensive,it was because the issue was being oversimplified.
    Last edited by BobTD; 01-05-2014 at 08:49 AM.
    "Prediction: Zenimax Online is making an MMO set in the elder scrolls universe" -BobTD 8-25-2010 (search it on the forum)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Default

    Okay, I'm.. not really sure where to start.

    Lets face reality for a moment.. I'm pretty sure we can both agree this country is horrendous. I believe the real reason that America is making a huge push, and why it should be making such a push for gay marriage is because our personal rights are terrible. Because it is the way it is, gay couples need to get married to have the same rights and benefits as a straight couple. Could it be better? of course. Will this country try to make it better? Nope.

    You seem to be forgetting that people can be gay and religious.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Ohio
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    Default

    I love gay people and I am a big supporter of gay marriage. I think I got lost some where along reading your post though. It seemed like you started off saying that you don't like the idea of gay marriage then went onto say you don't like that the government can decide who gets married, idk I think I just got confused some where lol


    Shout out to Eggs for the awesome signature

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykub View Post
    Okay, I'm.. not really sure where to start.

    Lets face reality for a moment.. I'm pretty sure we can both agree this country is horrendous. I believe the real reason that America is making a huge push, and why it should be making such a push for gay marriage is because our personal rights are terrible. Because it is the way it is, gay couples need to get married to have the same rights and benefits as a straight couple. Could it be better? of course. Will this country try to make it better? Nope.

    You seem to be forgetting that people can be gay and religious.
    I agree with you completely. The problem here really is how bad our laws serve the needs of the people.

    And your both right I'm secretly for gay marriage I just wanted to get people in here to state their own opinions. I understand that you can be both religious and gay and that is the basis of my argument in a sense. If religion were not involved and a major contributor to the conversation then I would not have as much of a leg to stand on.

    But I am a bit of an idealist here, in a perfect world the conversation would not be about granting gays the right to marry, it would be accepting that religion has no right setting policy for law in the first place. And the ideal way to achieve that is to remove the governments involvement in the process of marriage.

    - you can still argue against my logic even as another supporter of personal rights. You just have argue that marriage is not purely a religious concern. But its really hard to argue the idea that changing unnecessary laws is better than removing them.
    Last edited by BobTD; 01-05-2014 at 06:55 PM.
    "Prediction: Zenimax Online is making an MMO set in the elder scrolls universe" -BobTD 8-25-2010 (search it on the forum)

  5. #5
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    Default

    Bob it sounds like you're for both sides, which doesn't make any sense lol. Church and State is separate, it's one of the amendment i think the 6th right? Also, marriage is separate from religion, plenty of atheists get married and ceremonies don't have to take place in a church.

    Btw I'm for gay marriage, doesn't bother me what people want to do. If it makes them happy then let them be happy, who am I to take the happiness away from someone else.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Just to make me understand(as I take it for granted you talk about usa.) How does wedding work there, can you only do it in some kind of church or can you get married in for example a town hall without a priest(aka no religious things)?

    If thats the case I see no problem to make a law that gay people can get married in atleast non religious matters while the churces are free to choose wether or not they want it.

    The thing is today marriage is as much about beurocrazy(yay for spelling) with laws and stuff than just a bond between two people.


    Now I might have no idea what I actually talk about as I basically know nothing about weddings in the us.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paecmaker View Post
    Just to make me understand(as I take it for granted you talk about usa.) How does wedding work there, can you only do it in some kind of church or can you get married in for example a town hall without a priest(aka no religious things)?

    If thats the case I see no problem to make a law that gay people can get married in atleast non religious matters while the churces are free to choose wether or not they want it.

    The thing is today marriage is as much about beurocrazy(yay for spelling) with laws and stuff than just a bond between two people.


    Now I might have no idea what I actually talk about as I basically know nothing about weddings in the us.
    In the US you can have a religious or non-religious wedding. As long as you get your marriage license and have someone that is certified to marry you, it doesn’t matter. We had a non-religious wedding. My father-in-law is certified, and he is the one that married my husband and I

    Gay marriage is one of those topics where I will never be able to see the other side of the argument. The 2 main arguments that I typically hear for one to be against gay marriage (minus those bogus arguments such as, “Gay marriage will lead to beastiality!”):

    1) It’s against my religion.

    I don’t agree with it, but I actually understand why people use this reasoning. However, how does one justify controlling other people’s lives based on their OWN beliefs? And also, what makes these people think that THEIR beliefs are the THE right ones and that everyone should have to follow those rules? That part never made a damn bit of sense to me. For example, say that someone Catholic is against gay marriage because their religion tells them to be. Now, they think that it should be made a law that every single person in the US should have to follow regardless of their religion. If you want to make it a rule that no one can join your church if they are gay, then fine. But to force your beliefs on an entire country (especially a country with such diversity in religions)? How, how does one justify this? I will never understand. Can anyone offer some insight into this?

    2) I’m not against it, I just find it gross.

    Ah, the typical response of someone that has just watched an hours worth of lesbian porn, but is against gay marriage. This one’s not hard. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Denying someone basic human rights because you don’t like it is just absurd.

    Laws for marriage/taxes are already in place for same sex couples. Allowing gays to marry will change nothing (with the exception of minor wording). Separation of church from state says that religion should have no bearing on laws. Again, I’m baffled by the fact that gay marriage is even still an issue.

  8. #8
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    Default

    weddings are as much of religious tradition as anything else. Of course you can be non religious and have a wedding that makes perfect sense. But to say that we should have laws that enforce a certain religions customs in a religiously tolerant country is a joke.

    If you take away the governments hand in hand relationship with this ancient tradition then we remove a form of religious discrimination. And with separation of church and state that is how it should be.

    So rather than argue for gay rights I argue for freedom from religions influence in our laws.
    "Prediction: Zenimax Online is making an MMO set in the elder scrolls universe" -BobTD 8-25-2010 (search it on the forum)

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default

    I'm also fully against it Church and State!

    Send me FR on Steam
    Imperial_Kade

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Alabama
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    Default

    I don't support it but I think everyone should be happy...not gay

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