Captiol Punishment

[jango]

I'm going to be quite biased here because I'm someone living in a country where the police don't carry guns, and a country that doesn't have capital punishment and hasn't had for some decades.

For me killing, whether based on a lawful or unlawful basis, is the greatest failing in humanity. Specifically to do with this topic I see capital punishment as a slightly stunted solution, and if anything a limp-wristed and archaic option for legal matters. There are some terrible people in the world, for sure, and it's hard to be anything but emotive if anything terrible touches your life or something you care about, but for me personally I don't see any moral mileage in resorting to killing as an answer to it. For me it does nothing to raise us above the consciousness of a wild animal and is full of potential problems.

[BobTD]

I'm going to be quite biased here because I'm someone living in a country where the police don't carry guns, and a country that doesn't have capital punishment and hasn't had for some decades.

For me killing, whether based on a lawful or unlawful basis, is the greatest failing in humanity. Specifically to do with this topic I see capital punishment as a slightly stunted solution, and if anything a limp-wristed and archaic option for legal matters. There are some terrible people in the world, for sure, and it's hard to be anything but emotive if anything terrible touches your life or something you care about, but for me personally I don't see any moral mileage in resorting to killing as an answer to it. For me it does nothing to raise us above the consciousness of a wild animal and is full of potential problems.

I respect your point of view and its true that most of the developed countries in the world no longer support capitol punishment. However most of the developed nations in the world dont have the same rights in regards to weapons and strict drug laws that we do.

We have a lot more violent crime it seems and a lot more people in prison.

Number of inmates by country
(the countries listed with "0" people in prison usually have problems with human trafficking, something they should have the death penalty for)

And these prisons are like schools for criminal thinking. The one good thing about them may be that many prisons expose the inmates to seeing prisoners on death row. Im a little afraid of what might happen in this country if we take away capitol punishment altogether because there would most likely be another spike in violent crimes and murders swiftly following it.

I just wonder if capitol punishment is our biggest concern. There are probably others things as a country that we need to fix first, rather then abolish the death penalty and deal with the results later.

Even if you dont agree with it in general, does it make sense that our country might need it right now?

[jango]

Tbh comparing American crime with somewhere tiny like Britain is like comparing the surface of the moon to a pebble .. ofc you have more people in prison, your country is massively bigger than countries like mine (with a fraction of the population) - hardly a relevant point tbh.

Our cultures are quite different tbh in quite key areas which isn't taken into account .. it's all relative tbh and to me doesn't justify death. So in answer to your question "Even if you dont agree with it in general, does it make sense that our country might need it right now?" .. to me 'no', and quite honestly I find those kind've justifications quite weak, and conveniently blinkered.

Don't get me wrong though no culture is perfect, nor its legal systems .. but this is just my view.

[Linx_is_me]

Tbh comparing American crime with somewhere tiny like Britain is like comparing the surface of the moon to a pebble .. ofc you have more people in prison, your country is massively bigger than countries like mine (with a fraction of the population) - hardly a relevant point tbh.

Our cultures are quite different tbh in quite key areas which isn't taken into account .. it's all relative tbh and to me doesn't justify death. So in answer to your question "Even if you dont agree with it in general, does it make sense that our country might need it right now?" .. to me 'no', and quite honestly I find those kind've justifications quite weak, and conveniently blinkered.

Don't get me wrong though no culture is perfect, nor its legal systems .. but this is just my view.

Thats weird , Because I always got the idea in my head like over in in Britan your guys crime rate was horrid . Thats also what someone had told me who lived over there . I mean yes it is a good thing it is not . I just wanted to point out that I was told it was horrid . But none the less , I support Jangos Views on this one .

[jango]

Thats weird , Because I always got the idea in my head like over in in Britan your guys crime rate was horrid . Thats also what someone had told me who lived over there . I mean yes it is a good thing it is not . I just wanted to point out that I was told it was horrid . But none the less , I support Jangos Views on this one .

You might wanna read what I wrote in context to what Bob was saying rather than assume, incorrectly, what I've said

[BobTD]

Tbh comparing American crime with somewhere tiny like Britain is like comparing the surface of the moon to a pebble .. ofc you have more people in prison, your country is massively bigger than countries like mine (with a fraction of the population) - hardly a relevant point tbh.

Our cultures are quite different tbh in quite key areas which isn't taken into account .. it's all relative tbh and to me doesn't justify death. So in answer to your question "Even if you dont agree with it in general, does it make sense that our country might need it right now?" .. to me 'no', and quite honestly I find those kind've justifications quite weak, and conveniently blinkered.

Don't get me wrong though no culture is perfect, nor its legal systems .. but this is just my view.

Tbh honest i was not comparing Americas problems to Britons when I posted this link:

Number of inmates by country

It shows that america has more people in prison then China and india combined. And more then double the number of prisoners then the 3rd country on the list. Our prison system is directly affected by including the death penalty. And its a relevant point because the country has tried abolishing the death penalty in the past and it caused more problems then it solved.

I see that we can agree on no legal system being perfect, but you have managed to call my justifications weak while giving little more then your opinion without any real clarity on why you feel that way. Is your opinion shaped by religious or philosophical principles?

Your own personal set of morals are fine. But its not in itself a very strong argument.

[jango]

I'm not a religious guy at all, so my thoughts on this don't really come from there. I just don't see justification for things like death in a legal framework from a civilised country. It just doesn't sit right with me. If anything my views are purely humanitarian, looking forward and not backwards. As i said at the start, my views WILL be biased because I live in a country without the same culture and social framework, and while there are big similarities there are also big differences. By no means does this mean Britain is 'better' .. in a good number of ways we're far worse .. but regardless most people would prefer solutions to social issues to be more proactive than destructive regardless of their origin.

To me the number of prisoners is a bit of a smoke screen, especially when often the things people compare one thing to another aren't particularly comparable. It's a smoke screen to me because in my view it certainly doesn't equate to a need for capital punishment, and reminds me more of a form of social control from ancient cultures, not a modern sophisticated civilisation. Surely after 2,000 years we could be managing things in a different way? Naturally this doesn't relate purely to capital punishment either if you choose to think on.

My comments about 'weak justifications' weren't directed at you personally Bob, but more in general as there are other countries that have similar practises and in my view try to justify it with 'numbers' of one sort or another. If you need more clarity on my view then I'm not sure what more I can say .. as I already mentioned, I see any killing as humanity's greatest weakness, particularly as part of 'law' - I'm not sure there's much more I can add to that.

One thing I will add is that we're conditioned to believe there is distinctive 'good' and 'evil' in the world which is mostly a very subjective thing .. what there is more of that's harder for people and cultures to adapt to is 'difference'. History and culture gives us reference points for how to conduct our future .. but to me this isn't always a constructive way to make the world, a specific culture, or just your neighbourhood better.

But now I've met my 10% serious post quota for this week .. so must now go back to silliness

[RecreationalGamer]

Personal, you take the life of someone you have lost any right to be alive yourself, that excludes self defense.

Indeed. Cardinal rule, in order to take one life, you must be willing to give yours away. This is because taking a life involves demeaning the value of life, therefore demeaning any value your own life holds.

[Linx_is_me]

Indeed. Cardinal rule, in order to take one life, you must be willing to give yours away. This is because taking a life involves demeaning the value of life, therefore demeaning any value your own life holds.

I get a lot of facepalms , But this DESERVES all of mine .The whole sentence is a big oxymoron . IF YOU KILL SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY KILLED SOMEONE .....then we can kill you . Does anyone else see the problem here .

[RecreationalGamer]

I get a lot of facepalms , But this DESERVES all of mine .The whole sentence is a big oxymoron . IF YOU KILL SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY KILLED SOMEONE .....then we can kill you . Does anyone else see the problem here .

Aside from the law, I'm speaking strictly in a humane perspective of the subject. If two people are alone in the world and one of them kills the other, the killer has then given up his value in life as well.